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Old 07-10-2018, 11:58 AM
Fasts79Chief Fasts79Chief is offline
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Question Vacuum Advance Pod for 79 360?

Do you guys know the part # for an ADJUSTABLE vacuum pot for my distributor.? 1979 was an electronic distributor, right?

I have been searching for hours for a true Adjustable vacuum pot and can't find any.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
  #2  
Old 07-10-2018, 12:57 PM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
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Location: arizona
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after market replacement may be adjustable, suggest you go to the parts store and look at replacement before buying to check. yes it is electronic
  #3  
Old 07-10-2018, 01:52 PM
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nograin nograin is offline
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They won't say adjustable on them, even if they are.
First, make sure its a Motorcraft distributor. The previous owner(s) could have put something else on it. It will look like the one in Ristow's thread (see the link Tony (Babywag) posted above.


Or, post some pictures. One of us can tell you.
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  #4  
Old 07-10-2018, 07:08 PM
Fasts79Chief Fasts79Chief is offline
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Exclamation

FSjunkie,
I'll be checking the initial timing tomorrow morning.

I'm noticing that nobody can answer my question about, "Where can I get an adjustable vacuum advance for my Motorcraft distributor??" lol

Does this mean that they are not available anymore?

If just one member can answer this question ... I can go forward with what I have to do to have a working vacuum advance distributor.

Thanks guys.
  #5  
Old 07-10-2018, 08:42 PM
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nograin nograin is offline
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Whatever you buy, no one can predict whether it will be adjustable or not. Its not going to be advertized that way. If you buy a used one, or one over the counter you and/or the seller can check for the adjuster.

All the adjuster does is change the pre-load, which starts & finishes the advance curve later or earlier.

Lets say the vac advance pod provides no advance under 4"Hg, and
20* over 10"Hg.
Turning the screw 1 turn CCW might shift that to something like no advance under 6"Hg, and 20* when over 12"Hg of vacuum.

The rate stays the same, and the maximum degrees added stays the same. The adjustment changes when they are added or reduced.


As to Manifold vs. Timed (Ported) vacuum.
Most everyone seems to have the general idea, but maybe its worth getting into how it differs.

Both manifold and ported vacuum are created by the throttle blade restricting the air flow through the carburetor or throttle body.

Manifold vacuum comes from below the throttle blade under all conditions. Any small hole in the plenum, or the throttle plate, is a manifold vacuum source.
Ported vacuum comes from a small hole in the throttle bore just above the throttle blade's - when the throttle blade is at idle position.
Depending on how far above the throttle plate the port it located, at idle it will see atmospheric pressure, or sometimes a little bit of vacuum.
When the throttle blade is slightly opened, the port then is below the leading edge of the throttle plate and sees vacuum.


So the only difference between timed and manifold vacuum is at idle, and just off idle. Of course this is only true if the throttle position at idle is in the proper range.
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body by beer (PO)
carries wood inside
no "wood" outside
My other car is a fish
  #6  
Old 07-11-2018, 06:13 AM
Fasts79Chief Fasts79Chief is offline
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Exclamation Adjustable Vacuum Advance for Motorcraft Distributor???

All Members with Mechanical Skills:

Can the ADJUSTABLE VACUUM ADVANCE pot still be found anywhere for the 1979 AMC 360 Motorcraft distributor?

I've been asking this question in another thread for 2 days and all I get back is "quotes" from the Service Manual on the difference between ported and manifold vacuum. I DON'T NEED THAT ... thank you.

I need a NEW ADJUSTABLE VACUUM ADVANCE module/pot for the distributor.

If anyone can locate the part number or who is selling these ... I owe you big time. You have first dibs on all OEM parts I take off my 1979 Chief.

Thanks,
Sincerely
  #7  
Old 07-11-2018, 06:18 AM
Fasts79Chief Fasts79Chief is offline
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Exclamation

Thanks nograin ... but that doesn't help me.

I need to know where to FIND a NEW ADJUSTABLE VACUUM ADVANCE unit for my Motorcraft distributor.

No more 'quotes' from the Service Manual please. lol

Need a part number for a NEW unit or who is selling the part that I need ... no more logic, theorum, or opinions at this time ... just PARTS.

Thanks.

Frustrating.
  #8  
Old 07-11-2018, 07:23 AM
joe joe is offline
 
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Haven't checked in years but Napa used to sell them. Problem is cost. It was cheaper to buy a rebuilt dizzy that comes with a new adv can than it is to just buy the vac adv can alone. If you try checking with Napa forget the lame napaonline website, it's a joke. Do a walk-in or at least call your local store.
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  #9  
Old 07-11-2018, 10:57 AM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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I asked abort ported vs. Manifold vacuum awhile ago and got some fantastic responses (from many of these same superstars too).

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=181948

In the end, I tuned my distributor to the factory curve (using the info from the Ristow link provided to you by babywag), left mine with ported vacuum, and set my initial timing to 10*. Also, not completely related but I run a 195* T-stat because the CTO that switches between ported and manifold vacuum does not open until 180 degrees. When I had a 180 degree T-Stat, my engine took FOREVER to get to normal operating temp and I am not sure if the CTO ever switched. My 79, Duraspark'ed, AMC never pinged again after that.

Also, I think FSJunkie is on to something when he said "Your timing has to be really f#*ed for the engine to ping with no load on it just revving it in the driveway." You may have something else going on.

you asked "FIND a NEW ADJUSTABLE VACUUM ADVANCE " a few times and the answer was given a couple times as:
1) after market replacement may be adjustable, suggest you go to the parts store and look at replacement before buying to check
2) They won't say adjustable on them, even if they are.
3) Whatever you buy, no one can predict whether it will be adjustable or not. Its not going to be advertised that way. If you buy a used one, or one over the counter you and/or the seller can check for the adjuster.

With that, go to your local McParts with a bright flashlight and a 1/8" allen wrench. Ask for what you need and when they bring it out, look down the vacuum nipple and see if you see an allen screw. If you can't see one, stick your allen wrench down the nipple and see if you can feel it engage. If you get negative results on both, it's probably not adjustable and you should try another brand of vacuum modulator or try a different McParts store.
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  #10  
Old 07-11-2018, 11:32 AM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Feb 15, 2010
Location: arizona
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take your distributer to a shop and have them set the curve, as far as where to buy a adjustable modulator no one knows for sure, do as I told you, go to the parts store and ask to see the replacements and check out before buying. not a common thing your asking, or buy a new msd unit and your set,
  #11  
Old 07-11-2018, 08:16 PM
Fasts79Chief Fasts79Chief is offline
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Red face

Ok ... it's time that I write this in a way that can be understood by most anybody who can read.

My vacuum advance unit is damaged and not working at all. It doesn't need adjusting ... it was NEVER adjustable.

I have been all over the internet ... to the parts store ... and on this forum asking you guys where to get a NEW replacement unit.


The internet doesn't show a replacement. the parts store doesn't offer a replacement.

So I joined this Forum because I knew I was buying a 40 year old vehicle and that since I have been a member of other forums in my lifetime for other 46 to 50 year old vehicles ... I thought MAYBE you long time members here would have more helpful advice than "go to your local Mcparts and ask them where the hell am I?" I have been asking over and over again where to get a NEW item because:

1. it doesn't need adjusting ... it's freakin broken
2. I can't find one locally at parts stores
3. you guys are supposed to know your about Cherokees and Wagoneers
4. I don't need to hear all the debates about "ported vs. manifold" because somebody can't read or hasn't taken the time to read the previous 5 posts about what I'm looking for.
5. Damn!!!

So there it is. I hope that I have made it clear what I am looking for. Please respond ONLY if you know a source to get a NEW Motorcraft ADJUSTABLE vacuum advance unit. No other 'life advice' is needed at this time.

Thanks.
  #12  
Old 07-11-2018, 09:07 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
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you are not going to find one
as you have already started to figure out

these thing were last produced in 1991 from leftover stock, most oem parts long since discontinued.

you can get a good used one
you can buy a reman distributor
never seen a correct new aftermarket one
these aren’t like mustangs or camaros where you can buy every nut & bolt
some parts are unobtanium
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  #13  
Old 07-11-2018, 09:56 PM
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Cecil14 Cecil14 is offline
 
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Here's a little wisdom for you, as you clearly appear to need it:

Be happy with the answers you get here. There really aren't that many active members here anymore. These vehicles were never as popular or as plentiful as a lot of other things from that era, that hampers the number of members and thusly the knowledgebase here as well. If you ask a question, be patient. No one here owes you an answer, if you get one great, if not that’s unfortunate. The information you do receive may not directly answer your question; the people here (despite your apparent belief) have an overwhelming wealth of knowledge, they are providing their experience to you free of charge. Sometimes looking at a problem from a different perspective will help solve it, or at least diagnose it. What you think might be one problem may in actuality be caused by something completely different and recognized by another member. This isn’t third grade, there are rarely any straight definitive answers, most of the time you are just going to have to deal with that.

Either intentionally or just by nature, you’ve been pretty unpleasant around here. You claim you’re well into adulthood, and yet you have been acting like an entitled child. If you really want to participate in the community here, we all welcome you. If you already know everything there is to know, however, it doesn’t seem like there will be much here for you.

Maybe my observations are not the popular opinion here, or maybe I’m the only one to speak up. The majority of people here are super friendly and happy to go out of their ways to help others, but that needs to work both ways. Feel free to block me as you’ve done with others, but this really needed to be called out.

Good fortunes in finding your answers in the future, but I would recommend learning some etiquette going forward.


aa
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  #14  
Old 07-11-2018, 10:54 PM
SJTD SJTD is offline
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Give that man a harrumph!
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Last edited by SJTD : 07-11-2018 at 11:56 PM.
  #15  
Old 07-11-2018, 11:00 PM
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Pyrate2010 Pyrate2010 is offline
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How about this

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Performance...AOSwXAJYV3D w
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  #16  
Old 07-12-2018, 04:17 AM
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PlasticBoob PlasticBoob is offline
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Location: Long Beach, CA
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What's the problem, guys? Just answer his question. Lots of crusty old veterans here who forget what it's like to be new to a scene.

Brand:Crane Cams

Manufacturer's Part Number:99607-1

Notes: Ford V-8 1973-85 with electronic ignition. Without computer controls.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...view/make/ford

"These Crane adjustable vacuum advance kits let you tailor your ignition to the advance you want. The adjustability provided by these kits permits you to run the maximum amount of ignition advance throughout the rpm range, without incurring detonation. Once they're installed, you can quickly compensate for changes in fuel quality and altitude. Each kit comes with a vacuum diaphragm, an Allen wrench, advance weight springs, and instructions."

Fast, I completely understand the frustration that comes with asking a question over and over only to get lengthy non-answers and lectures. This is a good group of guys, though, so I suggest you unblock 440 and give them all a chance. Chances are you will be coming back to this thread and using the data they posted when you start tuning your curve.
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Last edited by PlasticBoob : 07-12-2018 at 04:43 AM.
  #17  
Old 07-12-2018, 05:50 AM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
I have been all over the internet ... to the parts store ... and on this forum asking you guys where to get a NEW replacement unit.

The internet doesn't show a replacement. the parts store doesn't offer a replacement.

... I thought MAYBE you long time members here would have more helpful advice than "go to your local Mcparts and ask them where the hell am I?" I have been asking over and over again where to get a NEW item because:

1. it doesn't need adjusting ... it's freakin broken
2. I can't find one locally at parts stores
3. you guys are supposed to know your about Cherokees and Wagoneers
4. I don't need to hear all the debates about "ported vs. manifold" because somebody can't read or hasn't taken the time to read the previous 5 posts about what I'm looking for.
5. Damn!!!

So there it is. I hope that I have made it clear what I am looking for. Please respond ONLY if you know a source to get a NEW Motorcraft ADJUSTABLE vacuum advance unit. No other 'life advice' is needed at this time.

Thanks.
Hm. A quick check of the 3 local McParts stores found:
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b...+Advance&pos=0
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/MPEVC2039SB
https://www.autozone.com/external-en...r/80986_6294_0
Just for good measure, i checked Amazon, too.
https://www.amazon.com/Standard-Moto...vacuum+advance
We understand it's broken that's why we have been saying get a new one all along. We said they probably won't say "adjustable" and of the four I found in less than 5 minutes, only one says it's fixed (not adjustable). You would need to go to the store and check.

I also notice you have breezed right over wiley-moe saying to take it to a shop and have it tuned.

I won't claim to be the smartest guy on here, in fact I have doled out more than my fair share of bad info. But I will say, the information you have gotten from members here come from guys that have rigs exactly like yours, guys who have had 10+ FSJs in their life, guys who have raced FSJs, guys who have had magazine articles written about their FSJs, and guys that are generally squared away. If you are not getting the exact answer you want, maybe it will take some patience on your part to figure it out.

In my 2 years on here I have never seen a thread where peoples tempers have flared like this thread. The conversations on ported/manifold vacuum are pertinent to what you are working on. The conversations on adjustable or fixed are pertinent to what you are working on. Folks take time out of their day to help you out with the information you should have on an engine they know about/have experience with. They are not paid, they are not rewarded, they just do it because they are good people. You should check yourself before you flame spray folks for volunteering their time to try and help you.
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  #18  
Old 07-12-2018, 07:22 AM
nograin's Avatar
nograin nograin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasticBoob
What's the problem, guys? Just answer his question. Lots of crusty old veterans here who forget what it's like to be new to a scene.

Brand:Crane Cams

Manufacturer's Part Number:99607-1

Notes: Ford V-8 1973-85 with electronic ignition. Without computer controls.
...
The problem is it only fits a portion of the request - adjustable and new.

Rate of advance and amount of advance are not likely to be same as a Jeep. Degrees advanced can be limited or increased by custom modification. Spring rate requires uncrimping the can to change the spring & diaphram.

Without checking the parts book, I can't say for sure whether a '79 used the same advance can as a mid-80s -which I have the most information on. When a person wants correct, the only sure way is to check the original sources - then cross reference-to see if the replacement part is likely to operate the same as original.

I answered the question to the best of my ability. Rang-a-stang and others repeated it, or gave their own version. If I offered a part number and it didn't work out, then it would be my fault. I don't know what's in the supply chain.

In general my goal is provide people with information so they can solve problems on their own. This means I respond to questions or statements in thread from people other than the OP. As long as its not a total hijack or derail, I make no apologies. Same with occassionally showing humor.

So lets take this Crane advance unit. Lets say it has an advance such that it adds 10 degrees with an increase of 5"Hg of vacuum. What would be the consequences of using that instead of the correct unit?


edit: The tech info is back in the original thread here: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...=185604&page=2
__________________
'85 Grand Wagoneer
360 727auto, NP229
body by beer (PO)
carries wood inside
no "wood" outside
My other car is a fish

Last edited by nograin : 07-12-2018 at 07:38 AM.
  #19  
Old 07-12-2018, 07:38 AM
Fasts79Chief Fasts79Chief is offline
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Thumbs up

Finally.

A big A++ to PLASTICBOOB for seeing what is going here ... noticing that I have been very patient ... noticing that I ASKED POLITELY numerous times for the 'seniors' on here to QUIT involving the 'new guy' in their OBVIOUS long debated arguments that they have had most likely for years with other 'senior' members ... and decide to use my posts as a way to further their 'opinions' on something not asked.

I have been a member of Forums since Forums were invented on the internet. I have been an Administrator of a few forums in my time ... I know what the 'old timers' do to impress the, as they see them. 'newbies' on the site.

I want to offer this to those that LECTURED me recently:

When a member asks REPEATEDLY and politely over a few days to please stop providing information that was not ASKED for ... when a member says "Where can I get a NEW whatever, because in MY AREA I have had no luck finding one ... and I've searched the internet with no luck?" That's when you quit offering that the member adjust their hoojiggy, or look at their turn signals or radio antennae for a solution. When the member has DETERMINED the part he's seeking is defective ... this is when you either are ABLE to provide the info requested or you politely stay out of the conversation. Continuing to push your personal agenda on a new member is aggravating at that point. This is actually the time when you 'old timers' have an opportunity to SHINE ... and share what you know from supposedly the many years you have worked on these vehicles ... to come through with your SPECIFIC knowledge on where to find the part ... or to keep quiet and let the hands-on guys talk.

Sorry ... but many years experience with Forums brings me to the point in life where I recognize 're-hashed' arguments being foisted upon a new member who doesn't need to be impressed that way. We join Forums for SHARED KNOWLEDGE and commroderie and love of the activity. I mentioned earlier that I don't take to internet bullies ... No reason I should.

To the 1 or 2 members who took their valuable time to READ my thread and the progression to learn that the part was defective ... then took their time to actually FIND me a replacement part that should work ... YOU have earned my RESPECT on here because YOU are the problem solvers without ego. I will share my knowledge on all things mechanical and what I learn about this Chief as I delve further into it with you. But you TWO guys that helped me ... I will never forget you. Thank you.

Those of you who decide to adopt attitudes towards me ... I suggest you take the TIME (as I did while writing each step in this process) take the time to review how I politely asked over and over again for 1 piece of info, and how you chose to ignore that and throw other topics, subjects, tutorials, and minutia into the Thread. You did that ... not me.

Thanks to all that sincerely want to help ... I appreciate you guys. I'll give the shirt off my back to anybody who treats me with respect and dignity ... but don't try to push me around because you 'been here longer'. That don't flush.

Thanks.
  #20  
Old 07-12-2018, 08:06 AM
Fasts79Chief Fasts79Chief is offline
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Smile

rang-a-stang,
Thanks for looking for me. 3 out of the 4 you posted say "NOT for 1979 Jeep Cherokee", and that's what I have been finding for a few days now.

But thanks for trying anyway.

Fast.
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