Axle wrap bars really needed?

[Mex in the city]

I,m about to finish a SOA conversion in my rig, which is a wheeling only vehicle, and I wheel it hard. It had BJ's 6" kit, but I want more flex.

My rig has AMC 360, TF 727, D44 / AMC 20, 4.56, lockrites front and rear on 35" tires.

I haven't found that many posts about axle wrap, which makes me think that is not that frequent.

So, my questions are: Should I really be concerned about axle wrap? Do I really need axle wrap bars?

Now that the rig is still at the welder's shop would be a good time to make them, but only if they are really needed, since money is always an issue.

Thanks in advance.

[duncanstives]

So you are getting rid of the 6in lift to go with SOA I presume?

Either way: No... You should not need them... Most people do not run them, I don't run them and I have not heard anyone say that you need them... Mostly you need them if you have huge blocks (bad idea anyway) or leafsprung rigs with rockwells, MASSIVE tires, etc (maybe a bad idea anyway depending on how much flex you want).

[Gambler68]

only if you plan on drag racing on tar..

[Dumpy]

My buddy has a nicely done setup on his Chief, but he's running D70's and 38's. Still not sure of it's needed, but has some cool factor.

[Gambler68]

anti-wrap bars are going to limit the articulation of the desired flexy springs. Best bet would be to go test and SEE if you need them.

[68glad]

Originally Posted by Gambler68

anti-wrap bars are going to limit the articulation of the desired flexy springs.

put a heim on the end mounted to the crossmember shackle. The bar is then free to do as it pleases... except allow axle wrap. I'd try power braking on pavement or pulling a tree out I knew wouldn't come out & have a buddy watch the axle to see what it does. Probibly not gonna be needed, though nice to have when trying to lay rubber.

[Dumpy]

My buddy has a heim joint on his and he has tons of flex. He's a member here from years past.

[csuengr]

If you start spitting out ujoints from your rear driveshaft and breaking yokes, then do an antiwrap bar. Otherwise I wouldn't bother. It's like what I told the guy who said i needed to do a shackel reversal on my CJ, it's a complicated solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

[Stuka]

Done properly they will not limit articulation at all.

And they can help a TON. Especially if running flat springs on a heavy vehicle (like we have). If you ever get any hopping or the like when climbing a hill, you need to put one on.

One of the things I love about my JK is the 4 link in back. ZERO axle wrap. Both my FSJ's do have axle wrap, and I have to be careful to avoid situations that induce it.

[SNO*MAN]

I need one as mine wrap up pretty good, but I don't think there are any pre- made ones available from any company for FSJ's.??? Anyone know better?

[MonsterZ]

I know that you could adapt one from a Full Size Chevy (god, it feels weird to type that ) fairly simply. Try looking with Offroad unlimited or www.diy4x.com for the anti-wrap axle kits. Since most of it is weld on facrication anyways, using one from a K5 or short bed chevy would be about right.

[blazer3664]

Being SOA up front, I am more worried about the front wrapping up, than the rear myself. I will watch this thread to see what wrap bars and such you guys suggest. Here is a couple.

First, understand that spring wrap makes the leaf springs try to go S shaped to one degree or another.

From my experience, there are a few fairly simple things that can be done with the springs themselves, to HELP keep it from wrapping.
I have done the first 2, and they do help more than you might think.

1)When/if you can, swapping the short leaves for longer gives them more leverage to resist wrap.
Down side, without custom springs, its hard to put together a pack that is not too stiff. If you have spring packs with just 2-3 leaves, this is probably not an even an option. Lucky for us, most of ours have 5-7 various length leaves. Also bad, this requires having 2 or more sets to get long leaves to build 1 long leaf set.

2)Keep the spring clamps to the rear of the axles tight. This helps keep them from "Fanning out" like they will want to do when trying to get axle wrap going, and only works going forward (who goes backward anyway, we already saw that part of the trail). This makes that side of the spring pack more ridgid as far as wrap, and unfortunately, can limit travel some. If the other clamp is left loose so it still lets the spring fan out, it probably wont hurt flex enough for most people to notice that much on the trail.

3) anti-wrap/half leaf/torque/anti-torque spring, Alcan and Dover (SP?) among others make them. What ever version you want to call it, they dont support weight realy. These only go from the center of the spring to one end, om top of the real leafs. Very similar idea to keeping the one clamp tight it helps prevent the spring from going S shaped.

Reason I am not too worried about the rear is a single triangulated traction bar with a shackle at the frame end and some kind of spin/twist joint (or a hiem) works great without hurting flex.
Its tried and true, with many designs and write-ups all over the interweb.

Jim

[misfittom138]

I made one for my rig. Rubicon express joint on shackle end. Made a HUGE difference on steep climbs and waterfalls. Did not limit flex in any way. I could really see a difference at emissions when it was on the rollers. Springs used to have a wave to them. Now they load down and try to launch. Freaks emission people out.

[SNO*MAN]

You can see spring wrap really well when you stand on the brake and give it some gas. They go right into an (s) shape curve;. My shop was showing me how much I had so that convinced me that I need a fix for it. I saw The pinion shoot up at a steep angle.
What you don't notice while driving, is the amount of fatigue this motion puts on a leaf spring. I don't have high horsepower in my rig and it does it just like it did. I would say any lifted rig needs them if you have any horsepower, any off road excursions, or towing involved, period. ( I am convinced)
What type is a whole new story, to not limit articulation and actually work.

[leadsled01]

My wrangler was SOA with wore out leaf springs and it ate driveshafts due to wrap. I replaced the springs and went back to SUA and never had a problem since. FSJ I wouldn't think needs it, but every set up is different. Anti wrap bars are hard on axle housings (bend and twist). Alot of anti wrap bars get broken off due to the stress.

[Stuka]

Originally Posted by leadsled01

My wrangler was SOA with wore out leaf springs and it ate driveshafts due to wrap. I replaced the springs and went back to SUA and never had a problem since. FSJ I wouldn't think needs it, but every set up is different. Anti wrap bars are hard on axle housings (bend and twist). Alot of anti wrap bars get broken off due to the stress.

Thats why you use a johnny joint or the like. It allows the axle to twist when articulating, prevents the bars from breaking. But the housing is not going to care unless its one that typically has problems. Which our D44's don't unless you have tires over 35" or so.

But a heavy vehicle like an FSJ most certainly needs them.

[elbastardo]

Soft flexy suspention that articulates good will have axle wrap. I had a friend awile back that had spring over on his YJ with D44s, and on gravel roads it was sad at best. We did a bam bar on his rig and it was night and day, on one trip he broke the bar and where we drove to, he had to shift back to 4wd just to get back from where we drove into in 2wd. Or you could run hard springs that dont flex aswell, but dont wrap

[Blake]

I'm about to make a traction bar for the rear of my J10 (1 tons and 42's). I keep breaking leaf spring perches. Rip 'em right off the axle tube and/or bend the perches.

I think a traction bar will help.

It's not needed unless you are having problems, as others have said.