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  #1  
Old 06-10-2019, 08:11 AM
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offthebeatenpath offthebeatenpath is offline
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Join Date: May 31, 2019
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'65 Gladiator 230

Here’s my introduction and the start of my build thread.

Picked this up last weekend from a local seller, seems it spent most of its time as a farm truck. It was repainted on the exterior at some point, and the bodywork was done fairly well, but not the paint.

Drove it 10 miles home with my foot half on the gas most of the way due to poor carb tuning, possibly getting too much fuel from the retrofitted electronic fuel pump.

Floorboards are toast, tailgate bottom edge is shot, corners of the bed need work, but there’s a lot going for it.

It runs! Decently too, but the valve train is pretty noisy right now. Shifts good, most all the interior and emblems are present and accounted for. Body is quite straight. Cooling system works.

I lost probably a quart of oil on the 10 miles home, so spent a couple evenings on Google sourcing 230 engine parts.... no small feat. I’ll post links to what I found tomorrow, but if anyone has any to add, I’m all ears!

I’m no stranger to Jeeps or mechanics, but I’m a cabinetmaker by trade, so metal can be a bit foreign to me at times. Had an 85 CJ7, 88 Comanche, 98 TJ, 98 Cherokee, those are all gone. Have another 98 TJ in the driveway, but I don’t think it’ll be staying long.



And a couple of my helpers...




Last edited by offthebeatenpath : 06-10-2019 at 08:32 AM.
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  #2  
Old 06-10-2019, 08:19 AM
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offthebeatenpath offthebeatenpath is offline
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Sorry, I've got to sort out my photo hosting, I'm not quite sure what's going on here....


That's better. Fricken' Flickr.

Last edited by offthebeatenpath : 06-10-2019 at 08:33 AM.
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  #3  
Old 06-10-2019, 09:06 AM
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Wagoneer Taylor Wagoneer Taylor is offline
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Looks like a great truck to start with! Looking forward to seeing more.
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  #4  
Old 06-10-2019, 10:21 AM
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offthebeatenpath offthebeatenpath is offline
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My current plan here is to get the 230 running well if possible so that it's driveable while I sort out the other issues. We'll see how that goes, but I know it runs now, so that seems like a decent place to start.

It has a 1 barrel intake with the Holley 1920 carb. I ordered a rebuild kit for it from Mikes Carburetor Parts, at www.carburetor-parts.com a super helpful website with a ton of YouTube videos too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkOxvi6TD2o

The truck was having a lot of trouble idling at all, which is why I ordered the kit. After I ordered the kit, I watched one of his videos where he mentions as a side note that a lot of electric in line fuel pumps have too much pressure for carbs like this and cause them to run rough. The PO stuck inline electric fuel pump in and bypassed the mechanical fuel pump. I think that may be a part of my problem, so I’ll have to add a fuel pressure regulator in somewhere.

Not sure if I'll try to go back to the mechanical pump or not, from my findings, no one makes a replacement pump for this 230 anymore. It seems like mine is functioning okay, so I'm not sure why it was bypassed. I'll dig into that later.

It also has the old school oil bath air filter on it, which I’ll either swap out or alter to accept a round paper filter. I like the idea of keeping the original housing, but I don't really want to mess with the oil.







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  #5  
Old 06-10-2019, 12:13 PM
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SOLSAKS SOLSAKS is offline
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Location: Benson. NC
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GOOD find !

it is obvious you are not afraid to tear into it.

you will have it singing like a bird in no time.

your helpers will never forget the truck project.

these are all good things for you, the helpers and the jeep !

welcome to the forum.

dave in NC
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1976 J-10 HONCHO Fleetside
1982 J-10 Fleetside
1988 grand wagoneer
2004 RUBICON jeep
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  #6  
Old 06-10-2019, 12:19 PM
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miracleed miracleed is offline
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Good looking truck! Good luck.
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  #7  
Old 06-11-2019, 07:25 AM
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offthebeatenpath offthebeatenpath is offline
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I dropped the oil pan the other night and found good news and bad news:



See the brazing on the left and right sides of the top end of the pan? Looks like somebody threw the #6 cylinder rod at some point. The oil pan is dented from the inside out right under the #6 cylinder. That’s the bad news.

The good news is that the oil in the pan was clean. No water, nothing metallic at all

This does confirm my need to do a compression test, which I’ve never done before, but I’m sure I can figure it out. I probably should have done that earlier, but it'll have to wait at this point.

Here’s a shot of the cylinder head, things look fairly clean to me, nothing super grody looking. The truck didn’t come with a title, so I don’t have a previous mileage on it except the odometer which reads 15k and change. I assume that’s more like 115k, but who knows!



I also ran through and adjusted all the valves, which was way easier than I expected. I've done it on a couple Honda CB550 motorcycles over the years, but not on a truck. It couldn't be simpler!

Especially on this motor with a single OHC, it's a piece of cake. Turn crankshaft til cam lobe points down to 6:00. Find the .008" feeler gauge, stick it between the valve and the lifter, tighten nut til the feeler gauge is snug. Move on to the next valve. I don't think it took me 10 minutes.

Before:


After brass brush, Gunk citrus degreaser and elbow grease:
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:54 PM
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rws31 rws31 is offline
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Very nice. Looks like your making good headway already. I love those old trucks. If I can find one in decent shape, would love to have one. Good to see the kids helping.
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  #9  
Old 06-13-2019, 10:45 AM
joe joe is offline
 
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Location: PNWet, USA
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Cool truck and nice condition! That'll be fun as a part time driver/hobby truck. Keep it near stock as feasible and it should be pretty reliable.
The 230 is a good solid motor if maintained.
You mentioned <"I lost probably a quart of oil on the 10 miles home."> That's even more than usual for a 230. But... at least you know it's a leaker (most 230's are).Oil level is "CRITICAL" on the 230! Most likely leaking from the timing chain cover. Poor eng mount design. Check oil "often" cause leaks(low oil) killed a lot of 230's cause oil starvation wipes out the cam and cam bed. Rare and $$$$. When you replace the timing cover gasket check the chain. It's a really looong chain and prone to stretching. When you need a new chain...buy two. Also keep up on valve adjustments. If you're lucky enough to ever find a used one I'd go wth the optional 2v carb intake manifold. I think it's for the Holley 2100(??)2v carb. Nice little performer carb w/o being too big.
In the past I've had decent luck getting 230 stuff from Kanters. https://www.kanter.com/customerservice.aspx Use their phone number not the web site. I haven't messed with a 230 OHC in prolly 10 years and even back then my rule when finding available consumable maint parts was...buy two. One trick I learned chasing parts was call the part manufacturer that made the orig part. Just for an example: Fel-Pro gaskets. and see if they still make them.Lota times they have a stash of NOS stuff they don't generally offer their retailers cause of low sales volumes.
You'll have fun with that truck. Tough and super easy simple maint.
Enjoy
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  #10  
Old 06-13-2019, 12:41 PM
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63J200atLSU 63J200atLSU is offline
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Join Date: Jan 15, 2016
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
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As someone who also brought an early rig with a 230 back from the dead, I second everything Joe said. I was lucky and found a 2bbl intake manifold on eBay that came with 3 Holley 2300 carbs, I bought rockauto clean out of one of the rebuild kits that was on clearance, frankensteined the three carbs into 1 during a rebuild and tuned per the TSM. Been running great ever since. Only thing I REALLY want mechanically is one of the BW overdrive units so I can go faster than 60 and not be revving the engine to all hell... If you have any questions about the 230 specifically, feel free to drop me a line!
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(http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=178651)

If all goes well, we can toast to accidental successes.

I'm convinced I'm just too dumb to know that I can't restore this old truck...
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  #11  
Old 06-14-2019, 02:22 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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AWESOME!! 'scribed!
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  #12  
Old 06-16-2019, 06:12 PM
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offthebeatenpath offthebeatenpath is offline
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Join Date: May 31, 2019
Location: MT
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
Cool truck and nice condition! That'll be fun as a part time driver/hobby truck. Keep it near stock as feasible and it should be pretty reliable.
The 230 is a good solid motor if maintained.
You mentioned <"I lost probably a quart of oil on the 10 miles home."> That's even more than usual for a 230. But... at least you know it's a leaker (most 230's are).Oil level is "CRITICAL" on the 230! Most likely leaking from the timing chain cover. Poor eng mount design. Check oil "often" cause leaks(low oil) killed a lot of 230's cause oil starvation wipes out the cam and cam bed. Rare and $$$$. When you replace the timing cover gasket check the chain. It's a really looong chain and prone to stretching. When you need a new chain...buy two. Also keep up on valve adjustments. If you're lucky enough to ever find a used one I'd go wth the optional 2v carb intake manifold. I think it's for the Holley 2100(??)2v carb. Nice little performer carb w/o being too big.
In the past I've had decent luck getting 230 stuff from Kanters. https://www.kanter.com/customerservice.aspx Use their phone number not the web site. I haven't messed with a 230 OHC in prolly 10 years and even back then my rule when finding available consumable maint parts was...buy two. One trick I learned chasing parts was call the part manufacturer that made the orig part. Just for an example: Fel-Pro gaskets. and see if they still make them.Lota times they have a stash of NOS stuff they don't generally offer their retailers cause of low sales volumes.
You'll have fun with that truck. Tough and super easy simple maint.
Enjoy

Yeah those engine mounts are something else... that was one of the first things that I noticed after I got done marveling at the valve cover...

The timing chain is long, no doubt. Does anyone have a baseline for me on what the chain deflection is on a new chain? The Jeep Service Manual states that with the tensioner in place, the distance across shouldn't be less than 3.38". Currently, my chain tensioner is nearly straight with very little curve to it. Also, there's very little wear on the tensioner itself, so those two things tell me that it wasn't replaced too long ago.

I keep waffling on what to spend money on and what not to, but I've got to draw the line somewhere, so I think I'm going to roll with the existing chain and tensioner and just keep tabs on it.

Thanks for the tip on contacting Fel-pro direct, I hadn't thought of that. Good call!
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  #13  
Old 06-18-2019, 11:32 AM
offthebeatenpath's Avatar
offthebeatenpath offthebeatenpath is offline
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Join Date: May 31, 2019
Location: MT
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Axle swap???

Just ran across a local (10 min. away) ad for a pair of J-truck D44 axles with 4.27 gears..... asking $100.

What do I need to look at in order to evaluate these as candidates for an axle swap into my '65?
I'm hoping they're open knuckle, but the ad photos only show the rear.
What year did the axle configuration change?

I'm currently running a T98 4 speed with I assume a Dana 20 transfer case. So, that's a passenger side front diff, and centered rear I think.
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  #14  
Old 06-18-2019, 12:15 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Do you know what year they are from? In 80 or 81 J trucks went to driver side front pumpkin. If they are QTrack axles, the rear will be passenger side offset, but don't let that bother you; there are PLENTY of stories of folks on here running offset rear with a centered case. it really is a non-issue. If the front is Disc brakes, you will need to get a proportioning valve (not $$$$ or hard but be ready).

Sounds like a steal!!! If they were in my area, I would go snatch them up JUST for the gear sets!
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  #15  
Old 06-18-2019, 12:29 PM
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offthebeatenpath offthebeatenpath is offline
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It doesn't sound like he knows exactly what they came out of....
He said '73, then '68, but neither of those would be wide track.

I'm kind of hoping they are front disc, that would be a sweet upgrade in the process. What year switched to disc brakes in the front?

I'm trying to get more info, but it sounds like they're semi-buried in a storage unit, so he wants me to tell him if I want them before he digs them out. I said I wanted to see them before I committed to it.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:37 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offthebeatenpath
It doesn't sound like he knows exactly what they came out of....
He said '73, then '68, but neither of those would be wide track.

I'm kind of hoping they are front disc, that would be a sweet upgrade in the process. What year switched to disc brakes in the front?

I'm trying to get more info, but it sounds like they're semi-buried in a storage unit, so he wants me to tell him if I want them before he digs them out. I said I wanted to see them before I committed to it.
Hm. I thought all J-Trucks were WT but could be in left field on that. I also have no clue when they went to discs but will assume it was around 73 or 74?
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  #17  
Old 06-18-2019, 12:45 PM
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offthebeatenpath offthebeatenpath is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang
Hm. I thought all J-Trucks were WT but could be in left field on that. I also have no clue when they went to discs but will assume it was around 73 or 74?

I could be wrong about that WT thing, I'm no expert for sure.
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  #18  
Old 06-18-2019, 03:01 PM
joe joe is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offthebeatenpath
It doesn't sound like he knows exactly what they came out of....
He said '73, then '68, but neither of those would be wide track.

I'm kind of hoping they are front disc, that would be a sweet upgrade in the process. What year switched to disc brakes in the front?

I'm trying to get more info, but it sounds like they're semi-buried in a storage unit, so he wants me to tell him if I want them before he digs them out. I said I wanted to see them before I committed to it.
If prior to 74 the front will be closed knuckle, pass side diff. Rear diff will also be offset to pass side regardless if from behind a D20 or BWQT. Later74-79 open knuck front diffs will have the same diff placement as will the 74-79 rears.
If they're both from a J-truck and not a Wag they're WT. No closed knuckle front axle came with disc. Discs were std equip on 74 and later Wags but still optional on J-trucks and Chero's till 76. Don't get hung up on the disc thing. The drum brakes if brought back to OEM spec work just fine.
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Old 06-18-2019, 03:28 PM
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offthebeatenpath offthebeatenpath is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
If prior to 74 the front will be closed knuckle, pass side diff. Rear diff will also be offset to pass side regardless if from behind a D20 or BWQT. Later74-79 open knuck front diffs will have the same diff placement as will the 74-79 rears.
If they're both from a J-truck and not a Wag they're WT. No closed knuckle front axle came with disc. Discs were std equip on 74 and later Wags but still optional on J-trucks and Chero's till 76. Don't get hung up on the disc thing. The drum brakes if brought back to OEM spec work just fine.

Thanks Joe! That's exactly what I needed.

My truck is parked with the front end up on blocks right now in the driveway, is there an easy way to tell what ratio I've got in the diff without pulling the covers?
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Old 06-18-2019, 03:58 PM
SJTD SJTD is offline
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Count how many turns of the driveshaft to turn the wheels once.

Make sure both fronts turn together. If one goes a little faster chock that one at a full rev and keep counting until the other one finishes its full rev.
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