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  #1  
Old 04-01-2020, 08:57 AM
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elskeptico elskeptico is offline
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paint experts: gray or white primer?

I'm finally beginning the journey of painting my yellow Cherokee this color:


I'm going to use an epoxy primer on many spots, and possibly all over as a sealer, and then do high-build primer all over. Given my color choice, would you recommend gray or white primer? I was leaning toward gray, but seeing as the green color is on the lighter side, thinking maybe white is the way to go. Would appreciate your input!

EDIT: for some reason the image I posted disappeared. Replaced it.
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  #2  
Old 04-01-2020, 09:16 AM
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babywag babywag is offline
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I wouldn't use epoxy as a sealer!
There are a number of urethane DTM/high build primers out there that work well for everything.

Gray is the predominant primer color used by OEMs.
It will allow less paint usage for the final color.
If using white you may wind up with slightly different shade on the final color and need to use more material to cover the white primer.
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  #3  
Old 04-01-2020, 11:54 AM
Rusty76 Rusty76 is offline
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Nice colour you have chosen. Cant wait to see it.
BabyWag I'm likely wrong but I was under the impression that epoxy primer was the way to go?

Bare metal-Epoxy Primer- Body work- Epoxy Primer- High build Primer-Paint-Clear.
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  #4  
Old 04-01-2020, 01:09 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
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Nothing wrong with that method...

I'm just stating my opinion that I'd use a 2k urethane(dtm) primer/filler for everything.
Lower costs and lessens the potential for any adhesion problems.
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  #5  
Old 04-01-2020, 10:59 PM
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Kaiserjeeps Kaiserjeeps is offline
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It is very important that every person who is considering urethane products of any type know that there is not one single cartridge type respirator that will filter out the very toxic isocyanates. You must use a fresh air system and if you don't, you will be poisoning yourself to the possibility of being permanently ill or even death. If someone tells you that X cartridge here will do it, they are wrong. Learn about it and pick the best paint for what you have to work with. Research it. It could save your life.
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  #6  
Old 04-02-2020, 07:25 AM
rocklaurence rocklaurence is offline
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Ask the paint manufacture because my understanding is that the tone/color is based on a Dark primer. A light color primer for a light color base does allow it to cover with less paint but it may not be as vibrant as you'd expect...IDK
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  #7  
Old 04-02-2020, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiserjeeps
It is very important that every person who is considering urethane products of any type know that there is not one single cartridge type respirator that will filter out the very toxic isocyanates. You must use a fresh air system and if you don't, you will be poisoning yourself to the possibility of being permanently ill or even death. If someone tells you that X cartridge here will do it, they are wrong. Learn about it and pick the best paint for what you have to work with. Research it. It could save your life.

YES! Safety is EXTREMELY important when working with these types of products.

If you can smell it you're probably already exposing yourself to harmful levels.
A full-face cartridge style respirator can work provided you change the filters every day!! The cartridges MUST be approved for auto body painting.
It must be WELL VENTILATED to use a respirator.
The el cheapo partial face respirators are no bueno.

I mentioned before on here I would NEVER paint in a garage attached to your home. If you have kiddos be VERY careful.
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  #8  
Old 04-02-2020, 08:43 AM
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elskeptico elskeptico is offline
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Thanks, guys. I'm aware of the dangers and have been researching this for years. I have a fully enclosed face mask with a supplied air system, so I won't be exposed to anything.

Also the opinions on primers is much appreciated.
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  #9  
Old 04-02-2020, 09:30 AM
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Kaiserjeeps Kaiserjeeps is offline
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Glad to hear it. I bought a grand in paint products for the build I finished last October and then discovered the isocyanate issue. I had to buy a fresh air system and dang me if it was not cheap at all. And managing all those hoses while trying to paint is a bundle of fun. You learn how to wrap lines around arms etc. I don't mean to bang the safety drum in your thread, but it is worth reading for someone who is looking and contemplating some paint work.
Unfortunately I could not see the color you chose. But hope you post up the results.
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Am I done yet?

Holy Moly, I am done.....

Most users ever online was 656, 06-30-2007 at 09:50 PM.
I was there! Still waiting for my Tee shirt...

1969 1414X Wag,
71 project J truck FOR SALE
1970 J truck long bed bed FOR SALE
1970 Wagoneer Not Sadie
1983 FJ60 wagon
CJ-5's
83 CJ-7 excellent shape FOR SALE
And soon... Another M715! echo... echo...
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  #10  
Old 04-02-2020, 10:09 AM
threepiece threepiece is offline
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In the PPG line of epoxy primer called DPLF, the white offers the least amount of corrosion protection. Because of this I never used it. I usually used red or black DPLF ( I think black is 90) on sandblasted metal.

Because epoxy is impervious to many chemicals it makes a good sealer. I always used it as a sealer thinned with DT reducer. You can mix different DPFL primers to get the color closer to what you like. I am not sure about what to mix to get close to yellow.

I have painted nearly 100 cars and trucks over the course of about 10 years but that ended more than 20 years ago, things may have changed since then.

All of the product I sprayed in that time was catalyzed urethane or epoxy. I never once used a fresh air supply. I usually used only a particle respirator without a vapor canister. I would hold my breath and spray fast with my Binks model 7 then move to the cleaner part of the room for a breath then back to spraying. I have suffered no known ill affects from this behavior.
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Last edited by threepiece : 04-02-2020 at 10:26 AM.
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  #11  
Old 04-02-2020, 10:21 AM
threepiece threepiece is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elskeptico

I'm going to use an epoxy primer on many spots, and possibly all over as a sealer, and then do high-build primer all over. Would appreciate your input!

You have your system reversed here. One of the reasons for sealer is to prevent topcoat solvents from penetrating into the filler coats. For this reason it should be applied after all surfacing/filler product not before.
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  #12  
Old 04-02-2020, 10:45 AM
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elskeptico elskeptico is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threepiece
You have your system reversed here. One of the reasons for sealer is to prevent topcoat solvents from penetrating into the filler coats. For this reason it should be applied after all surfacing/filler product not before.

You're right, I had a misconception about what a sealer is. Thanks.
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  #13  
Old 04-02-2020, 11:01 AM
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elskeptico elskeptico is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiserjeeps
Glad to hear it. I bought a grand in paint products for the build I finished last October and then discovered the isocyanate issue. I had to buy a fresh air system and dang me if it was not cheap at all. And managing all those hoses while trying to paint is a bundle of fun. You learn how to wrap lines around arms etc. I don't mean to bang the safety drum in your thread, but it is worth reading for someone who is looking and contemplating some paint work.

Not at all, I'm here to learn. Almost everyone I talk to about this tries to talk me out of doing it, but it's really a dream of mine and I'm pretty determined to do and try to do it right without hurting myself

I got a great deal on the fresh air system, but I hadn't thought about managing the hoses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiserjeeps
Unfortunately I could not see the color you chose. But hope you post up the results.

Sorry, I fixed the image now.
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Last edited by elskeptico : 04-02-2020 at 11:07 AM.
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  #14  
Old 04-02-2020, 11:49 AM
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babywag babywag is offline
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Glad you're aware of potential issues and sounds like you have safety handled.
Too many guys don't.

I have seen first hand a coworker(many years ago) have an accident and wind up heading to the hospital. He was experienced and knew proper safety but accidents happen.
It really messed him up BAD.
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  #15  
Old 04-03-2020, 08:32 AM
threepiece threepiece is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elskeptico
I'm finally beginning the journey of painting my yellow Cherokee

Is this your first painting project of this type?
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  #16  
Old 04-03-2020, 08:44 AM
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elskeptico elskeptico is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threepiece
Is this your first painting project of this type?

Well, my first car painting project, yes. I've been doing welding and resto work (mostly on my Jeep) for years, but this is the first time I'll actually be doing any kind of actual finish work. I have a decent gun and patience. I plan to practice a bit on a scrap fender, and in truth I don't need show-car perfection. I just want the experience and a better looking Jeep.

I've also done lots of woodworking, staining and finishing in that realm. I know it's not the same.
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Old 04-03-2020, 08:48 AM
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elskeptico elskeptico is offline
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Here's a weird question: is there any reason I can't brush on an epoxy primer? I have a few spots where there's rust that also need filler, so was thinking of taking it all down to metal, get rid of all the rust, (one area where a fender flare needs some welding/reconstruction), then brush it with epoxy primer, then do filler and all the rest.
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  #18  
Old 04-03-2020, 08:52 AM
threepiece threepiece is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elskeptico
Here's a weird question: is there any reason I can't brush on an epoxy primer? I have a few spots where there's rust that also need filler, so was thinking of taking it all down to metal, get rid of all the rust, (one area where a fender flare needs some welding/reconstruction), then brush it with epoxy primer, then do filler and all the rest.
Not at all, brush away.
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  #19  
Old 04-03-2020, 09:07 AM
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elskeptico elskeptico is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threepiece
Not at all, brush away.

That's helpful, thanks.

I've heard it's bad news to let cured body filler sit for a long time before being topcoated because it can absorb moisture. Is there truth to that, and is it true even if the car sits in a garage in a relatively dry environment?

I plan to do body work over a few months and then finally topcoat some time in the summer. I suppose I could do my filler, then spray everything again with epoxy before letting it sit too long.
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  #20  
Old 04-03-2020, 09:22 AM
threepiece threepiece is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elskeptico
Well, my first car painting project, yes. I've been doing welding and resto work (mostly on my Jeep) for years, but this is the first time I'll actually be doing any kind of actual finish work. I have a decent gun and patience. I plan to practice a bit on a scrap fender, and in truth I don't need show-car perfection. I just want the experience and a better looking Jeep.

I've also done lots of woodworking, staining and finishing in that realm. I know it's not the same.
I like your response, it is enthusiastic and realistic.

I would also recommend practice, perhaps on more than just a fender. Materials are expensive, make the most of your practices time as possible. As you are practicing focus on developing a
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