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Old 10-23-2018, 02:44 PM
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acct21 acct21 is offline
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Holley Sniper install keeping the stock fuel system

...not completely stock, of course -- but I kept it stock from the gas tank to the hard line from the fuel pump that fed the original 2150.

I went in a different direction with the fuel system. I know a lot of folks have been really successful with fitting up in-tank fuel pumps, but frankly I'm done dropping that tank (have had to do it twice in 5 years), and the thought of working in the confines of the access panel gave me hives, too. If I had an in-tank pump go out I might leave the Jeep on the side of the road.

Pumps on the frame rails have their issues -- and don't solve the problem of the fuel sender pickup G-loading/uncovering under cornering/low fuel levels.
I have seen problems with the FiTech Command Center can/pump, but a lot of it appeared to be the dead head (returnless) design -- which is apparently tough on pumps too.

I went with a return surge tank setup that takes low pressure feed from the stock mechanical fuel pump, and uses the stock return line to the tank. It has a high-pressure pump and a return circuit that feeds the Sniper and returns fuel from the Sniper's built-in regulator. There are lots of them out there -- but this is the one I used:

https://www.robbmcperformance.com/pr...owersurge.html

I put a small pre-filter between the low-pressure fuel feed and the surge tank, and a 10/20 micron filter before the fuel inlet on the Sniper. The pump hooks up with one wire from the Sniper ECU (it has a built-in fuel pump relay), and a ground to the battery. It was just about the exact same diameter as the charcoal canister, so I relocated the charcoal canister to the other fender, and installed the surge tank in place of it. I wrapped it with some foil insulation to protect it from engine heat.

I figured it kills three birds with one stone: I get the high-pressure pump in an accessible position for maintenance/replacement, I don't have to run lines to/from the gas tank, and I have some protection against G-loading/sloshing that could uncover the pickup in our (unbaffled) tanks. The last one is mainly in theory, but since the replacement/aftermarket sender pickups sit about 3 inches off the bottom of the tank, running under 1/4 full will eventually bite you in the butt.

One thing I will say: if you have ALL of the necessary parts/tools in front of you (lines, fittings, wire crimps, throttle/kick down linkages, etc), you can completely install a Sniper system in an SJ in an afternoon. Pretty slick.
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1990 Grand Wagoneer with HD towing package -- everything works! (for now...)

Last edited by acct21 : 02-10-2020 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 10-24-2018, 08:21 AM
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Atlasts Atlasts is offline
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Sounds like a good setup - Any photos to show install?
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Old 10-24-2018, 05:32 PM
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1990 Grand Wagoneer with HD towing package -- everything works! (for now...)

Last edited by acct21 : 05-23-2019 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 10-26-2018, 01:18 PM
BamaWagoneer BamaWagoneer is offline
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Which model of the PowerSurge did you go with? I see 3 on the page you linked to?


I'm looking to do something similar, what other parts did you need in addition to the PowerSurge? They mention needing a regulator but doesn't the Holley EFI have that built in?


Thanks
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Old 10-26-2018, 07:12 PM
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acct21 acct21 is offline
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PS500 -- since my 360 is bone stock, and running the 2bbl 2300.

The Sniper has a regulator built in.

All I needed was a longer length of 5/16" soft line to feed the surge tank from the mechanical pump, a longer length of 1/4" for the return line, fittings for the PS500 (2 X 3/8"NPT X -6AN fittings, 1 x 1/4"NPT x 5/16" barbed, and 1 x 1/8"NPT x 1/4" barbed), and high pressure hoses to/from the Sniper with -6AN fittings.

That's it. PS500 grounds to the battery, and gets (+)12V from the Sniper fuel pump relay.
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Old 10-28-2018, 09:57 PM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
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I had fits with the FCC.

When you get it up and running test it at idle for about 15-20 minutes and see if the can heats up. If it stays cool it's golden. If it gets hot, then no bueno.
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Old 11-09-2018, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShagWagon
I had fits with the FCC.

When you get it up and running test it at idle for about 15-20 minutes and see if the can heats up. If it stays cool it's golden. If it gets hot, then no bueno.

Works like a charm -- idling in traffic, full speed interstate driving. Top barely gets warm to the touch.

I think the fatal flaw with the FCC is the lack of ANY fuel return. The PowerSurge has both a low-pressure return and a high pressure return. Fuel -- including fresh fuel from the tank -- is constantly being recirculated. The FCC has the regulator built in, and deadheads the injectors/TBI. The PowerSurge depends on an external regulator (like the one built-in to the Sniper EFI) to set the pressure and return any unneeded fuel back to the can. In addition, the mechanical pump is constantly topping up and recirculating via the stock fuel/return lines.

I love it.
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Old 11-13-2018, 10:33 AM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
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Good concept. Glad someone got it right. I was guinea pig.
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  #9  
Old 12-20-2018, 08:42 AM
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Couple months, in -- thought I'd report back.

Had some idling issues -- just mainly rough idle. Checked fuel pressure and it pegged the 100psi fuel pressure gauge. Called Holley and they suspected a stuck regulator. Sent a new one, which was a 5 minute install. Pressure spot on at 58-60 p.s.i.

System learns quickly, and runs like a champ. Smells a bit rich on the "sniff test," but system claims to meet the AF/R targets, according to the readout from the WBO2.

Fuel mileage on my first full tank suggests that a slight tune is necessary. Went from 11-12mpg with the carb to around 9mpg with the Sniper. Others have agreed that the system defaults to a slightly over-rich tune, and with some patience you can get some better mileage dialed in without sacrificing the idle or cruise quality.

But the sheer joy of driving the Jeep is back. Starts with a touch of the key, and you can immediately shift into gear and drive away. Purrs like a kitten at idle, and has better throttle response than I could have ever imagined.

Bottom line -- I'll never go back to a carb on any vehicle I ever own. This was the single greatest mod I've made to the Jeep in the 5 years I've been wrenching on it.
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Old 12-20-2018, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acct21
Couple months, in -- thought I'd report back.

Had some idling issues -- just mainly rough idle. Checked fuel pressure and it pegged the 100psi fuel pressure gauge. Called Holley and they suspected a stuck regulator. Sent a new one, which was a 5 minute install. Pressure spot on at 58-60 p.s.i.


Seems to be a known issue?
https://forums.holley.com/showthread...-High-Fuel-PSI
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Old 12-20-2018, 11:44 AM
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When I pulled the regulator, it was missing the o-ring seal on the neck. Suspect it was pushing out and blocking the return flow out of the return outlet.
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Old 04-04-2019, 06:32 PM
PBG928 PBG928 is offline
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Getting ready to install the Holley Sniper and the Robbmc mentioned above. with this set up do I really need the charcoal filter?
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  #13  
Old 04-04-2019, 10:09 PM
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asphaltrockdweller asphaltrockdweller is offline
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I to would love to see your fuel pump/lines when ya get better weather.
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:47 PM
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Mikel Mikel is offline
 
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What about a buffer tank after the pump?


The tank would have a considerable internal volume and both the inlet and outlet would be at the bottom. When pressurized, the internal air would act as a spring, providing fuel pressure for short periods while the pump is sucking air.


The only problem I see is with longer fuel system priming times. But I bet a check valve would shorten that time...
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Old 05-02-2019, 01:44 PM
PBG928 PBG928 is offline
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Finally got Robbmc and Holley Sniper installed. Engine actually started. Have to fix a few other things before I can let it warm up and start learning. LCD screen is way cooler than the 1950 style box that comes with the Howell EFI. I went with the stainless lines and they are tough to work with but look sharp. Keep you posted. Sorry for large images havent been able to resize yet.

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Old 05-05-2019, 05:24 PM
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That looks great. Exactly like I set up mine (except I'm cheap, and used rubber lines for the low-pressure side!).

Since you used the RobbMC (red) bracket, you definitely have some room for a wrap (or two) of some foil insulation. It will keep the heat from the exhaust manifold off the side of the surge tank.

Congrats on the EFI setup!
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Old 05-07-2019, 02:54 PM
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SOLSAKS SOLSAKS is offline
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GREAT JOB

I REALLY LIKE THE IDEA
OF KEEPING FUEL PUMP
AND USING THE holding tank.

really neat engine area.

I bet the EFI will be super.

dave in NC
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Old 05-07-2019, 07:48 PM
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I've run mine like this since August, and it is smooth as glass. I'm down to about 1/16th of a tank, and as long as I can see fuel in the sight glass of my pre-filter, I know the surge tank is full - and I can make it to the nearest gas station!
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Old 05-18-2019, 01:31 PM
BamaWagoneer BamaWagoneer is offline
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Running this same setup as well thanks to this thread.

Been about a month and love it. Can't believe how much better the engine appears to run. So smooth. Much more responsive on the throttle.
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Old 12-01-2019, 10:39 AM
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So am adding this section so I can refer folks to it from the other forums (FB, etc).

So with 18+ months on my Sniper -- which is on my DD -- here is how I would set it up if I had to do it over again. I have not run into any issues; this is just 18+ months of seeing other people do it, and picking up some of their advice (and having a few forehead-slapping moments of "why didn't I think of that?"

This applies to most all of the later FSJs -- as long as it came with the factory Motorcraft/Autolite 2bbl, and 1/4" fuel return line.

The fuel system is completely, totally, bone-stock from the fuel tank to the hard fuel lines in the engine compartment. I completely rebuilt my entire fuel lines, fittings, sending unit, vents/rollover valves, etc -- but that was maintenance -- not necessary for the Sniper install.

LOW PRESSURE FUEL FITTINGS

I used "gasoline safe" teflon tape -- ONLY ON THE NPT FITTINGS -- but have since been advised that any teflon tape is potentially bad news in a high-pressure fuel environment. Even the slightest fragment of tape breaking loose runs the risk of clogging an injector. So have had seen several folks that use Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket on the NPT fittings instead. This is apparently the way to go. Never use any sealer on barb fittings, or on the -AN fittings mentioned later.

From the stock mechanical fuel pump (or hard line attached to the mechanical pump, if still present), run 5/16" fuel-rated (EFI/high pressure rated NOT necessary) rubber line up over the engine to the RobbMc lid. Insert a 5/16" hose barb x 1/4" NPT male fitting into the low pressure feed port on the RobbMc. Attach with stainless no-pinch hose clamps. I placed a 5/16" glass pre-filter just before the fitting on the RobbMc.

Place a 1/4" hose barb x 1/8" NPT male fitting (with sealer) to the low pressure return port on the RobbMc. Attach 1/4" rubber fuel-rated hose with stainless clamps, and route back to the hard return line on the driver frame rail. Low pressure fuel feed/return is finished!

Fittings:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edd-831450
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edd-831240

Clamps:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-750005erl
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-390541

Glass pre-filter:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1536/

Sealer:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ptx-80019/


HIGH PRESSURE FUEL FITTINGS

Here is another place where I had one of those "why didn't I think of that?" moments...

I used 45 degree NPT x AN fittings for the high pressure lines, and would not do that again for a very simple reason: if the fittings don't index POINTING AT THE TBI, neither will your hose! In order to get them to index correctly, they might need to be over-tightened, or left more loose than they should be. Both of these situations can be easily avoided.

Use straight NPT x AN fittings, and then use 90 degree fittings for the hose ends at the RobbMc. This way you can appropriately tighten the fittings into the lid of the RobbMc, and then attach your hoses -- which will point in any direction you wish.

You will need two (2) 3/8" NPT male x -6AN male fittings for the high pressure feed and return into the RobbMc. Sealer ONLY ON THE NPT SIDE -- never on the AN fitting side.

For high pressure hose, I only needed a single 6' length of high pressure AN hose. I used Summit house brand, and used half for the high pressure feed, and half for the high pressure return.

At the RobbMc end of the high pressure hoses, attach a 90 degree hose end (-6AN hose end x -6AN female) to the high pressure feed and the high pressure return hoses.

At the other end of the high pressure return hose (the end that attaches to the -6AN fuel pressure regulator port on the Sniper), I recommend a 45 degree hose end x -6AN female fitting.

For the high pressure feed, you will need two additional considerations: a high pressure, fuel-injection rated filter -- and a fuel pressure testing port. Recommend attaching an -6AN fuel pressure port fitting to the Sniper fuel intake fitting.

For the filter, recommend a RobbMc fuel filter, as well as some -6AN fuel hose x 3/8" NPT fittings for the filter. Run a straight fitting into the filter, and a 90 degree fitting that you can attach to the Earl's pressure port fitting.

Fittings:
high pressure feed line (from RobbMc to Sniper fuel inlet port)
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220648b
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220687b
*section of high pressure hose goes here*
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-240101b/
*filter goes in here*
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fra-499466-bl
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220675b

high pressure return line (from RobbMc to Sniper return port)
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220648b
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220687b
*section of high pressure hose goes here*
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220686b

High pressure filter (recommend model 1072)
https://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/filters.html

Fuel test port fitting (Schrader valve for use with the fuel pressure test kits you can rent from the big box stores -- can be replaced with 1/8" NPT direct screw-in gauge).
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-9616sverl/

High pressure fuel line (determine how much you need and order correct length)
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-230606

Obviously, your mileage may vary with this setup -- but it WILL get you pretty close. Comments welcome.
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Last edited by acct21 : 02-10-2020 at 02:05 PM.
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