My Tech How-To for the Carbon Vapor Canister

[scotty1998]

Shoe goo has worked for some, silicon caulk for other. I think if the rubber isn't too bad, you'll probably have some success. Mine had almost the entie center ring ripped out.

[rustynuts]

I called 2 parts suppliers here in Ontario Canada yesterday. One wanted $107.00 CDN and my regular parts guy wanted $80.00 CDN.
Feel fortunate to pay less than half what we here in Canada pay. Unless someone on this side of the border knows of any place cheaper?
Dennis

[FSK1460]

I called 2 parts suppliers here in Ontario Canada yesterday. One wanted $107.00 CDN and my regular parts guy wanted $80.00 CDN.
Feel fortunate to pay less than half what we here in Canada pay. Unless someone on this side of the border knows of any place cheaper?
Dennis

Having read this thread, I decided to check my canister. Wow! Not only did I find the vacuum diaphram leaking on mine (as everyone else's is) but the hose going to the fuel vent was clogged.

A piece of plastic somehow got lodged up in there. This is what was causing the "whooshing" sound when I took the gas cap off, which also I believe was causing the running out of gas like symtoms when my tank was low, but not empty.

Anyways, I ended up ordering the canister from Rockauto.com p/n CP1010 for about $36 plus shipping. However, I just ordered the last one they had , now it doesn't even show up in their system. This part appears to be a direct replacement best I can tell. I think one of the vacuum ports may be larger, but I can adapt it ok.

The GM p/n's for the CP1010 are 17056978, 17063014, & 1706420. These all show to fit 78-81 Pontiacs, Olds & Buick. I don't think the engine size mattered, but don't hold me to it.

Also, I was looking at CP1019 which appeared to be the same as the CP1010, but most of its vacuum ports were bigger. It was priced the same, but last I looked, there was only one left.

Sorry for the long thread, hope this helps.

[silvercert]

OK so if the stock ones are not available anymore then what is that guy out in California using when he rebuilds the Grand Wagoneers and sales them for 100K. Looking through all his pictures the canisters look brand new. Same as the Wagonmaster guy. Stock Canisters have to be somewhere right?

[FSK1460]

OK so if the stock ones are not available anymore then what is that guy out in California using when he rebuilds the Grand Wagoneers and sales them for 100K. Looking through all his pictures the canisters look brand new. Same as the Wagonmaster guy. Stock Canisters have to be somewhere right?

Well the one I ordered yesterday "looks" like a stock one. I'll have to post some pics when it comes in. I've too often wondered where all those 100k Wagon parts come from. Maybe they're counterfeit knockoffs made in China

[SnowShoe]

Excellent!!!!!!

[silvercert]

yes this is great info

[GWDriver]

Great write-up.. I've needed this for a long time. Definitely a 'tech' article. Well written and with great photos.

[scotty1998]

Thanks for the kind words guys. This was one of those components that always bothered me.

Looks like we have some other good parts numbers out there. Keep 'em coming! FWIW, I just checked out CP1019 on Rockauto and that looks like an even better match for the one I spec'd. I wonder if the breather is on the bottom like the original? I'd be curious to find out if someone that bought one wants to post an update.

[skinnyD]

I just bought the CP1019 model so when I get it in I will post some pics of it . For now I was thinking about trying to repair the tiny tiny hole in the diaphram with a bicycle tire repair patch. Has anyone else tried this and does this sound doable?

Im so mad that I missed out on the $30 canister, but everything happens for a reason right?

[scotty1998]

I should also mention that I know for a fact that Carquest carries Standard Motor Products. Napa may too you'd have to check.

[FSK1460]

Well I got my CP1010 vapor canister in from RockAuto.com and found the picture they had on their website for this model was for a different model canister. So the CP1010 is not a direct replacement like I thought.

However I think I can get it to work, but there are a few differences. (Sorry my camera is inop for the moment otherwise I'd post some pics). It has four ports like the original plus an air vent/breather port on top instead of thru the bottom. But one thing that's different is the bowl vent and purge/pvc ports are in opposite positions. Which means the purge signal (top port with the cap) activates the bowl vent and not the purge/pvc line.

Also, on this model when vacuum is applied to the purge signal port, it shuts off the flow to the port below it. On the original it opens it up which is just the opposite.

According to the FSM, when the dual CTO switch reaches around 125F, it opens and allows vacuum to pass thru the purge signal thereby allowing vacuum from the pcv to the purge port on the canister.

With the way the CP1010 model is, if I connect it up as labled, my purge/pvc will always be on, and the bowl vent port will only be on when the engine's still cold. Which I don't think is that big a deal.

Sorry for the long post, without pictures its harder to explain. I'll try and mess around with it tomorrow and see if I can't make sense of it.

[skinnyD]

I just bought the CP1019 canister. Ill let you know if its a direct swap-in or not. Sorry to hear about the mix up FSK1460. Let us know how it works out

[FSK1460]

Well after playing around with this new charcoal canister, I think I figured out how it works. The CP1010 model basically has a built-in bowl vent solenoid switch, which explains why the "bowl vent" port is triggered by the purge sig. (Sorry still don't have pics yet).

On our engines, the bowl vent solenoid is closed when the engine is running, and open when its off so as to allow fuel vapors from the carb to enter into the canister.

On the CP1010 canister, the bowl vent port is open when the engine is off, or not warmed up. Once the engine temp hits 125F, the Dual CTO switch opens and allows vacuum to the purge sig port on the canister. This internally shuts off the vacuum for the bowl vent port. With this model canister, you can eliminate your bowl vent solenoid, which on most of these vechicles is already broken.

The tradeoff is, and I'm not sure if its an issue or not, is the purge port has full vacuum applied all the time. Whereas on the original canister, its "metered" by the ported vacuum signal. The more engine RPM's the higher vacuum going thru the "purge signal port" which in turn regulates the vacuum flow of the purge port. I've attached the vac diagram and colored in the lines for the canister (original one). Although with MicroSoft Paint utility, I'm not sure if the notes at the bottom are readable.

Since I have an Edel 1406 which doesn't have the bowl vent on the carb, I'm thinking I could have gotten by with a three port canister. What I did on this one, was to remove the hose from the vapor separator going to the bowl vent, and capping it off at the separator. And left the second port on the vapor separator still tied into the PCV line. Incidently, the vacuum going thru the separator only draws 4 inches of vacuum while the other line from the PVC draws 19 inches.

Since my purge line is no longer metered, I probably could have left the bowl vent line and the purge signal line off. Hope this makes sense. I'll post some pics when I get my camera going.

http://s291.photobucket.com/albums/ll311/GW90/Grand%20Wagoneer/?action=view&current=Vac_diagram1.jpg

[FSK1460]

Well I got my camera working and took some pictures finally.

http://s291.photobucket.com/albums/ll311/GW90/Grand%20Wagoneer/?mediafilter=images

On the canister, I went ahead and capped the purge signal (top port on cap) and also capped the bowl vent port since my carb doesn't have one. (Of course I plugged the lines going to them).

I left the hose from the fuel tank connected, and used one of the two vacuum sources from the pvc. The one that goes thru the vapor separator was only drawing about 4 inches of vacuum while the other straight thru line drew a full 19 to 20 inches.

Wasn't sure how much vacuum it really needs to keep the fuel tank vented properly, so I used the vacuum coming from the vapor separator (4 inches) and capped off the other line at the T from the pvc. So far it is running great, better than it ever has. Seems to have more power and starts a lot easier now. Used a tank of gas and averaged about 11.8 mpg driving hiway around 65-70 mph. Thats with 31" tires and 3.73 gears.

I did have to readjust my idle mixure a bit to comensate for the change in rpms. Going to try and run it with the other vacuum line (19 inches) to see if it runs any better. I'll post my results.