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-   -   California problems (http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=188183)

Mstanwyck 01-21-2020 04:48 PM

California problems
 
I have an '86 Grand Wagoneer that I purchased from someone who brought it in from Florida. Unbeknownst to me, he had had the smog "handled" and the car can't actually be legitimately brought up to standard.

Mechanic said my only options, as is, would be to go the same route (not a fan) or to replace the engine.

I'm a little embarrassed to admit here, but I know nothing about engines. I just love the car. Can anyone help with info about rebuilds or swaps that might make this compliant in California? Possible?

Full Size Jeeper 01-21-2020 06:23 PM

Need a little bit more info. What engine is in your Wagoneer? If you have the AMC 360 engine, no reason it could not be put back to pass smog in California. You could start asking on this sight for the smog parts you need. Now if you have a different engine, Not sure how that works out in your part of the country. We do have lots of guys on this site from Cali, so they should be able to point you in the right direction. Give us some more info on your rig. Good luck!

tenoverthenose 01-21-2020 07:25 PM

I purchased an '81 Wagoneer from out of state and brought it into California. In order for it to pass smog (I did this in 2017), I had to meet the original Federal Standards for Smog for the car, not the California standards, because it was not originally a California vehicle. I believe that you should be able to get yours to pass Smog here in California so long as it meets the original requirements from the state it originated in. Your wagoneer, with the factory setup and factory smog equipment in good working order should pass here.

Perhaps you need to get the smog equipment in working order. However, it sounds from your post as if the engine might have been swapped or modified. Is this the case?

You could always swap in an entirely new engine/drive-train and go down that (expensive) road too.

babywag 01-22-2020 10:24 AM

Not even close to enough info.
A mechanic suggesting to replace an engine seems sketchy just for smog?

Need details on exactly what issue(s) and exactly why replacement is needed.

Smog is a pain, but hardly dictates replacement of an engine simply to pass unless it isn't the stock engine.
Even if it is a swap, then simply adding/fixing the correct smog stuff for that engine would be easier than replacing it???

It makes little sense from the limited info you posted.

letank 01-22-2020 10:57 AM

Pict please
 
the best way to give us more info, take pict of the engine, right, left and front end. If you can nudge the air filter assembly by unscrewing the top wing nut to allow a better view this is really cool -too many hoses are connected to this unit... - capture also the sticker with the emission info on the valence above the driver's side headlight.

Probably you are missing the air pump, its bracket and the control valve, the air hoses connecting the air pump to the exhaust manifold... I would say catalyst...


I forgot... a new gas cap, so you do not fail the gas cap test! Which seems to be visual in my area of SF.

tgreese 01-22-2020 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by letank
the best way to give us more info, take pict of the engine, right, left and front end. If you can nudge the air filter assembly by unscrewing the top wing nut to allow a better view this is really cool -too many hoses are connected to this unit... - capture also the sticker with the emission info on the valence above the driver's side headlight.

Probably you are missing the air pump, its bracket and the control valve, the air hoses connecting the air pump to the exhaust manifold... I would say catalyst...

Assuming the above components have been removed (typical), you can either replace all the factory components or install the Howell CARB-approved electronic fuel injection (EFI) kit. https://howellefi.com/product/tbi-ki...issions-legal/

As above, if you want to comply by putting the original parts back, we will need more details. The fuel injection would both be an upgrade and solve most of your compliance issues, though it does not free you from keeping emissions devices entirely. You'd need to keep (or install/restore) your catalytic converter and your EGR valve. This is shown better in the installation manual for the kit, available to read at the link I posted.

If you don't have it, the factory service manual (TSM) for 1986 would help you determine what has to be present to meet the California standards using the original equipment. http://www.bjsoffroad.com/1984-87-Je...al_p_1056.html Pretty sure the letter of the law in CA is that everything emissions-related must be present using the original factory parts or their identical service replacements, and you must pass a tailpipe test. This means a CA-approved converter, the original carburetor, and all the original vacuum plumbing connected to all the original devices according to the original factory vacuum diagram.

It is possible to replace the motor and become compliant, but you need to choose a motor from the same year or newer vehicle of the same weight class, and it has to have all of its original emissions-related equipment.

Full Size Jeeper 01-22-2020 05:40 PM

Go look in the parts for sale threads, someone is giving away air pumps and some other pollution stuff. Go check it out.

661warwagon 01-26-2020 12:49 AM

I just passed smog with flying colors in bakersfield.... I would recommend going to a good smog plus repair shop and running a manual smog so you can have a baseline and they should be able to point you in the right direction as to what it will need.

Mstanwyck 01-26-2020 06:40 PM

Upon looking deeper into it, it looks like I may not have the original engine in the car, which seems to complicate the situation.

I don't have the pump, i don't have the cat, and i don't think i have the EGR, or can't find it.

rang-a-stang 01-28-2020 11:45 AM

I had a 89 Ranger with an engine from a 1990 Mustang in it and was able to smog it 3 times before I sold it. Engine swaps can be smogged. Your mechanic is not fully informed.

joe 01-28-2020 02:21 PM

As mentioned you can swap in a "later" motor but it will have to meet the smog specs for the year of the newer motor.

MysticRob 02-02-2020 11:18 AM

Hopefully that's a big lesson learned for you. CA absolutely sucks when it comes to smog requirements for older vehicles, which reaches back all the way to 1975 if it had cats on it.

Best thing you can do is research what exactly you have under the hood and whether or not that engine is a "stockish" replacement. You can then retrofit all the necessary smog items on that engine. EGR, smog pump, cat, etc, are must-haves if that engine is a stockish replacement.

If you're dealing with something else entirely then you might want to think about offloading it to someone in a non-smog requirement state. Otherwise you're in for an expensive ride since you know nothing about the mechanicals necessary to get it legal in CA.

babywag 02-02-2020 12:19 PM

I'll also add what the seller did was illegal...
You may want to reach out and see what they are willing to do.
IF you choose to repair/make it legal they're liable for reasonable repair costs to make it legal.
However you would likely have to pay first, then take them to court and cross your fingers they will actually pay up if you win.

MysticRob 02-02-2020 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babywag
I'll also add what the seller did was illegal...
You may want to reach out and see what they are willing to do.
IF you choose to repair/make it legal they're liable for reasonable repair costs to make it legal.
However you would likely have to pay first, then take them to court and cross your fingers they will actually pay up if you win.


That's a great point about the seller illegally smogging the vehicle. I'd misread OP's first post and thought he bought it from someone in Florida. If you bought it in CA and it was already registered there, you might have a case against both the seller and the smog station for not doing it legally.

Dunno about the seller being liable for repair costs, etc, as stated above, but I'd put the screws to them both if I got screwed like that. Hell, if nothing else, threaten to sue and have the seller give you back the cash and take the vehicle back.

SJTD 02-02-2020 10:44 PM

Here in Kal the seller is responsible for making it legal but unless it's a dealer I'd bet it never happens.

It would go this way:

Buyer: "Ok, I'll take it. When will you have it smogged?"

Seller: "You'll have to take care of that."

Buyer: "Law says you have to provide the smog cert."

Seller: "Maybe so but I'm not doing it. You want the car or not?"

He'd probably win if he sued but as was said he probably wouldn't actually get anything for his trouble unless he ended up on a TV show.

SC/397 02-03-2020 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mstanwyck
Upon looking deeper into it, it looks like I may not have the original engine in the car, which seems to complicate the situation.

I don't have the pump, i don't have the cat, and i don't think i have the EGR, or can't find it.



The EGR valve is on the rear of the intake manifold. Post up some pictures and we can help you find it or, tell you it is not there. I have a stock intake manifold that you can have if yours doesn't have one.

rang-a-stang 02-03-2020 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJTD
Here in Kal the seller is responsible for making it legal but unless it's a dealer I'd bet it never happens.

It would go this way:
Buyer: "Ok, I'll take it. When will you have it smogged?"
Seller: "You'll have to take care of that."
Buyer: "Law says you have to provide the smog cert."
Seller: "Maybe so but I'm not doing it. You want the car or not?"

He'd probably win if he sued but as was said he probably wouldn't actually get anything for his trouble unless he ended up on a TV show.


I think you can sell/buy a car without a smog certificate here, right? If the seller sold that car as planned non-op, offroad, or for parts, the seller does not need to provide a smog certificate. I also think if the seller explicitly said it won't pass or he is not willing to smog it for whatever reason, he would be clear. Buyer cannot register the vehicle without a smog certificate, though. I think you can transfer title without smog but you cannot register or get stickers.... I think...? I bought mine without a smog certificate about 3 or 4 years ago, knowing that it was my risk to get it through smog (it would have cost me a good $3k to get mine through smog if I was paying a mechanic). So it could go this way:

Buyer: "Ok, I'll take it. When will you have it smogged?"
Seller: "You'll have to take care of that."
Buyer: "I'm not going to buy it w/o a smog certificate unless you drop the price by more than $1500."
Seller: "it'll pass. I am not going to drop the price that much."
Buyer" "Ok, then pay the $50 and go get it smogged. Let me know when it's smogged and I'll come pick it up. If you want a $20 deposit to know that I am not going to walk, here you go."
(I sold my daughters car 2 months ago like this)

Or
Buyer: "Ok, I'll take it for $6,000. When will you have it smogged?"
Seller: "You'll have to take care of that."
Buyer: "I'm not going to buy it w/o a smog certificate unless you drop the price by more than $1500."
Seller: "Fine. You can have it for $4,500 but the engine is not original and it may be hard to get through smog."
Buyer: "That's fine. I can take care of that."

Mstanwyck 02-06-2020 02:10 PM

Sad to say
 
Sad to say that I think the whole thing is moot. I think the engine is blown. Need a new one anyway. Worth it?

rang-a-stang 02-06-2020 02:29 PM

Depends. How nice is the rig? if it's a nice rig, for sure worth it. Just put a smog legal engine in there. Easiest would be to find an AMC 360 and put that in. They show up on Craigslist fairly often and sell for pennys.

You never really said what engine is in it now so it's hard to say. If the transmission is the stock transmission, this will not be hard but if the previous owner swapped the transmission, too it will complicate things.

MysticRob 02-06-2020 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mstanwyck
Sad to say that I think the whole thing is moot. I think the engine is blown. Need a new one anyway. Worth it?


Sounds like you bought it sight unseen. Hopefully you didn't sink too much into the purchase price. As asked, what drivetrain is in it now? Pics would help figure out next steps.


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