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-   -   AMC360 build with 343 Rebuild Kit (http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=186633)

SC/397 01-25-2019 08:04 AM

AMC360 build with 343 Rebuild Kit
 
This is more or less a repeat of this build thread but this time, we are using a complete off the shelf 343 rebuild kit from Ebay. This one is for ELRonDeCuba going to France.
Again, the idea is to use off the shelf 343 flat top pistons to boost the compression ratio just below the magical number of 10.0:1 to be able to run on regular old pump gas.

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=177234

This is the kit that I bought off of Ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMC-343-MASTER-Engine-Kit-w-Torque-Cam-1967-68-69-pistons-bearings-gaskets/170622487424?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid =p2060353.m1438.l2649


This the actual kit.
IMG_0813 by Rick Jones, on Flickr
The cam card.
IMG_0814 by Rick Jones, on Flickr


The first key things that I had to do before ordering the kit was:
1. Select a pair of cylinder heads with the largest combustion chamber (63cc) so that I can keep the compression ratio below 10.0:1. Cylinder heads casted from 1978 and later have the 63cc combustion chamber.
2. Determine what over size pistons were needed.
3. Determine what under size Rod and Main Bearings were needed.

SC/397 01-25-2019 08:18 AM

Here is a picture of the casting number on the cylinder head.
IMG_1201 by Rick Jones, on Flickr


Here is the date code 79.
IMG_1200 by Rick Jones, on Flickr


Just to confirm, I measured the combustion chamber which came out to 63cc.
IMG_1202 by Rick Jones, on Flickr
For reference, here are combustion chamber sizes for the various years.
51cc - 1970 & early 1971 #3196291C
58cc - 1971 through 1974 #3212993, #3213948, #3220502
60cc - 1975 through 1977 #3220503
63cc - 1978 and up.


I measured the head gasket as well so that I could calculate what the compression will be.
IMG_1199 by Rick Jones, on Flickr


The valve reliefs in the piston measured about 6cc.
IMG_1198 by Rick Jones, on Flickr


For calculation purposes, I assumed that the head gasket would crush to about .050"
Here is the calculations for the compression ratio.
360-343CompRatio by Rick Jones, on Flickr

SC/397 01-25-2019 08:51 AM

I had learned that one of the critical measurements that I needed to take is from the piston pin center line to the bottom of the piston to make sure that there will be clearance to the crank throws. The left piston is a normal cast 360 piston. The center piston is the new 343 piston. The piston on the right is a forged 360 piston. From the measurements, the 343 piston will be fine.
IMG_1205 by Rick Jones, on Flickr


Big difference between the 360 dished pistons and the 343 flat top.
IMG_1206 by Rick Jones, on Flickr

SC/397 01-25-2019 09:44 AM

The timing set that came in the kit is a Cloyes C-3008K which is actually SA Gear timing set. It is also the same as the Summit G6508 among others.
IMG_1189 by Rick Jones, on Flickr


I checked the oil feed cavity on the back side of the timing gear to see if it lines up with the oil feed hole in the cam. It doesn't. This will have to be reworked to assure oil flow to the distributor gear. This is typical. It is rare that I don't have to correct these.
IMG_1190 by Rick Jones, on Flickr


I moved the slot over with my die grinder. I always clean out the transfer slot as well.
IMG_1212 by Rick Jones, on Flickr
Looks like it will work now.
IMG_1209 by Rick Jones, on Flickr


I braze all the slots on the front shut except for the one at the key way slot. The factory didn't put these in and they rob oil from the distributor gear. I learned the hard way that with cast iron like this I need to heat the whole thing up before brazing.
IMG_1213 by Rick Jones, on Flickr


There were no instructions or cam lube provided with the cam so, I use CRC SL3331 to lubricate the cam lobes.
IMG_1188 by Rick Jones, on Flickr

SC/397 01-25-2019 10:02 AM

The gasket set that came in the kit is a MAHLE AMC 95-3339. There are only rubber valve seals in the kit and there is no nylon type which is the ones I would rather use. We will be using positive seals in the build so not a issue. The distributor gasket is over size and I won't be able to use that either. The rest of the gaskets seem to be ok.

The FelPro 260-1151 is a better gasket set.
IMG_1203 by Rick Jones, on Flickr

SC/397 01-25-2019 10:20 AM

Short block is together. Not it has to rest for a few days before I can get back to it. :thumbsup:


IMG_1214 by Rick Jones, on Flickr

wiley-moeracing 01-26-2019 09:37 AM

Very interested, been thinking about doing this same build for a while now. My concern is with the piston skirts clearing the crank? and wonder about the quality of the pistons?, keep posting. Thanks

rang-a-stang 01-26-2019 11:39 AM

Subscribed. Love this stuff.

SC/397 01-27-2019 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiley-moeracing
Very interested, been thinking about doing this same build for a while now. My concern is with the piston skirts clearing the crank? and wonder about the quality of the pistons?, keep posting. Thanks



There is plenty of clearance in there, I will try to get a picture. The pistons are cast PST brand and look as good as any cast piston.
IMG_1224 by Rick Jones, on Flickr

SC/397 01-29-2019 05:15 PM

I would say there is at least 0.090" clearance between the crank throw and the bottom of the piston.
IMG_1234 by Rick Jones, on Flickr
IMG_1233 by Rick Jones, on Flickr

SC/397 02-01-2019 08:39 AM

Oil Pick Up Screen - The little button in the center is the factory stock part that just about always falls off. The button is there in case the bottom of the oil pan gets pushed up to the screen. I replace them with a 1/4"-20 x 3/8" bolt and nut installed with loctite.
IMG_1237 by Rick Jones, on Flickr
IMG_1238 by Rick Jones, on Flickr


Timing cover - I sandblast it and spray a coat of zincrom primer on it. After that I spray a coat of paint where the water pump mounts and the coolant passage. I also hand lap the oil pump cover area.
IMG_1239 by Rick Jones, on Flickr


Oil Pan - I always test fit it without a gasket first. Every now and then you have to tighten the oil pick up tube and or, tweak the pan here and there. This is a new pan and it cleared the screen but wouldn't fit over the main caps without some effort. I did a little body work with a hammer at the rear of the pan and then it fit fine.
IMG_1240 by Rick Jones, on Flickr

asphaltrockdweller 02-01-2019 12:20 PM

Rick I love reading your engine build threads.
I have learned so much from you over the years, and truly appreciate your attention to detail on these builds.

Thanks again!

Probesport 02-01-2019 03:04 PM

I'm watching this one, an engine rebuild is on my list.

I'm also in Michigan, are you doing your own machining or do you have a preferred shop? I don't mind building, but I don't have anything large enough to do my own machining....

SC/397 02-01-2019 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asphaltrockdweller
Rick I love reading your engine build threads.
I have learned so much from you over the years, and truly appreciate your attention to detail on these builds.

Thanks again!


Thanks Man! I just do my best, I build them all as if they are for me.:drivin:

SC/397 02-01-2019 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Probesport
I'm watching this one, an engine rebuild is on my list.

I'm also in Michigan, are you doing your own machining or do you have a preferred shop? I don't mind building, but I don't have anything large enough to do my own machining....


I am just a assembler. I use one Machine shop in Ottawa lake (1 mile north of Toledo) and another one near Jonesville MI.

JeepsAndGuns 02-03-2019 07:59 AM

That seems like a lot of work for the timing gear. Is there no other/better timing set available?

SC/397 02-03-2019 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeepsAndGuns
That seems like a lot of work for the timing gear. Is there no other/better timing set available?



No. Even the most expensive timing gear needs re-worked to make right. Every now and then the oil passage does line up with the oil feed hole in the cam but it is rare.

Cecil14 02-03-2019 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeepsAndGuns
That seems like a lot of work for the timing gear. Is there no other/better timing set available?


Likely every set available today is made in the same factory, resulting in the same problems. Pretty representative of today's aftermarket environment as a whole.


aa

SC/397 02-07-2019 11:22 AM

I had forgot to mention the prep I do so that the replacement dip stick tube will actually fit in the block. I bought a batch of these through Omix-Ada #17424.02 and they are slightly oversize compaird to the original ones. So, before I even take the block to the machine shop I drill the hole in the block for the dip stick tube out to 11/32". Then, I grind the first bubble off of the tube and the second one down a little bit. If I don't do this, it is almost impossible to drive in.
IMG_1271 by Rick Jones, on Flickr


I sandblast the rocker arms and then use a rocker arm shoe kit like the Sealed Power #MR-1909 . I had measured the base circle of the new cam and compared it to the old stock cam and they were close enough so I was able to use the original push rods.
IMG_1281 by Rick Jones, on Flickr.


She is getting close now..
IMG_1269 by Rick Jones, on Flickr

SC/397 02-07-2019 11:42 AM

It runs!
IMG_1280 by Rick Jones, on Flickr


Now, I have to change the oil, re-torque the head bolts, and figure out how to make this all work.
IMG_1279 by Rick Jones, on Flickr


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